[e2e] packet loss in the Internet

Woojune Kim wkim at airvananet.com
Fri May 24 09:36:22 PDT 2002

I've seen this a lot too. One vendor A even told me just don't try
autonegotiation when working with vendor B. I don't think the basic
protocol has a fundamental as different products from the vendor's own
lines seem to work alright together. It looks more like different
vendors implement it slightly differently. So there may be some
ambiguity in the specs. (Or maybe just bad implementations.)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Savage [mailto:savage at cs.ucsd.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:23 PM
> To: 'David P. Reed'; 'Joe Cao'; end2end-interest at postel.org
> Subject: RE: [e2e] packet loss in the Internet
> I agree about congestion.  However, I've measured significant loss in
> enterprise networks on several occasions that arose from Ethernet
> full-duplex/half-duplex conflicts (its still not clear to me if the
> Ethernet autonegotiation protocol is fundamentally inadequate or if
> current implementations are simply poor).  Its unclear to me how
> prevalent this problem is, but I've run into it in three separate
> networks.  
> - Stefan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: end2end-interest-admin at postel.org
> [mailto:end2end-interest-admin at postel.org] On Behalf Of David P. Reed
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 3:17 AM
> To: Joe Cao; end2end-interest at postel.org
> Subject: Re: [e2e] packet loss in the Internet
> Typical is the wrong question for enterprise nets.   As Andrew Odlyzko
> has 
> noted, enterprise nets are very lightly loaded, and are managed to be
> so, 
> except when there are odd constraints or lack of management attention.
> And 
> loss rates are *really* low, because congestion is low.   The more
> likely 
> congestion problems in enterprise nets is at the endpoints 
> (servers and 
> access links).   I observe this in real demos all the time 
> these days, 
> where I can demo a particular app that uses uncorrected UDP for voice 
> streams (with buffering to eliminate jitter) and can go for hours
> without a 
> lost packet.
> Can't speak for ISP
> At 06:14 PM 5/22/2002 -0700, Joe Cao wrote:
> >Hi Folks,
> >
> >Does anyone know in the current real world what a typical packet loss
> >rate is in an enterprise network and on an ISP trunk?  Also if drop
> >occurs, consecutive packets might be discarded.  What is the typical
> >burst
> >size that gets dropped if RED is not enabled?  Are there any such
> >statistics available?  Could anyone get me some pointers 
> that can help
> >me
> >find those information?
> >
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Joe

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