[e2e] Reacting to corruption based loss

Lynne Jolitz lynne at telemuse.net
Tue Jun 7 16:33:22 PDT 2005

Right on, Simon! Packet drops *are* unacceptable. Period. 

The problem with reductionist thinking is that they think they can do it with the minimum number of parts so as to solve a minimum problem. So all we need is Ethernet - as long as it's a *perfect* Ethernet. 
And there you go, pointing out annoying facts like the world isn't perfect. :-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: end2end-interest-bounces at postel.org on Behalf Of Simon Spero
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:36 PM

> >Jon Crowcroft wrote:
> >and will lead to  far less memory wastage in hosts runnign all
> >that complicated TCP protcol - they can just send web pages and video
> >and audio and so on as a sequence of IP packets
> >[...]
> >IP over TCP: way to go.
> >  
> >
> Yeah right.  What happens if one if the nodes on the path is
> unavailable?  The data just gets dropped. That's completely unacceptable.
> You might think that the correct approach would be to layer IP over
> SMTP, to take advantage over well defined store and forward semantics.
> You might think that, but you'ld be wrong, and you'ld be wrong for the
> most obvious reason possible.  What part of  "IP over SMTP" involves XML
> encodings and HTTP? None at all. Sheesh.
> Simon
> p.s.
> There's way too much network overbuild right now for it not to be
> sensible to waste much of it, but the key is to waste responsibly.
> What does it mean if the core has  infinite bandwidth, such that if
> packet makes it way into the core it won't face a congestion drop till
> it reaches the other side?
> What happens when the most likely cause of packet loss becomes gremlin
> perverted BGP converge ?
> Where is end-to-end when  the middle ground vanishes, and the world is
> split between the wired and connected, whose limits are unfathomable,
> and the mobile and the mote-ile, where every packet and every joule
> brings death a little closer?
> "So close - the infinitesimal and the infinite. But suddenly, I knew
> they were really the two ends of the same concept. The unbelievably
> small and the unbelievably vast eventually meet - like the closing of a
> gigantic circle. I looked up, as if somehow I would grasp the heavens.
> The universe, worlds beyond number, God's silver tapestry spread across
> the night."
> p.p.s.
>    What?  You were talking about Bernie Ebbers?  Never mind.

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