[e2e] end of interest

Christian Huitema huitema at windows.microsoft.com
Fri Apr 18 20:27:35 PDT 2008

In what world are you living, exactly? What about systems like Skype, or Bit torrent? They are definitely pushing the envelope of end to end designs, are widely deployed, and are not controlled by major corporations.

From: end2end-interest-bounces at postel.org [mailto:end2end-interest-bounces at postel.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Balakrishnan
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 5:11 PM
To: end2end-interest at postel.org
Subject: Re: [e2e] end of interest

In fact there seems to be pushback from both ends --- we can't deploy end-to-end protocols because major companies own the end-host stacks; and we can't push mechanisms deep into the network because ISPs and router companies own the network. Arguably the latter source of pushback played a major role in the emergence of the e2e philosophy; but now we have equally powerful commercial forces on the other side.

So effectively the only practical mode of deployment seems to be the 'almost' end-to-end middlebox --- one hop away from the end-host but not quite into the network (and the Maelstrom work I presented day before yesterday at NSDI would be one example).

- mahesh


-----Original Message-----
From: end2end-interest-bounces at postel.org on behalf of David P. Reed
Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 9:13 AM
To: Jon Crowcroft
Cc: 'end2end-interest at postel.org'
Subject: Re: [e2e] end of interest

I personally think that the network community has become frustrated with
the inability to explore end-to-end protocols because the endpoint
stacks are "locked in" by vendors in proprietary code.

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