[e2e] end of interest

Jon Crowcroft Jon.Crowcroft at cl.cam.ac.uk
Sun May 11 01:40:58 PDT 2008

nice example of 0nership by warring protocol layer factions

mesh wifi people need to learn to do layer 3 snooping
same way telecom people did...

there's a great e2e topic - 
we have sort of gotten out of the 
denial phase on middle boxes and 
we're probably ok with multicast's niches now ...

but should we raise the 
art of _snooping_ to being a 
first class component of any decent 
postmodern internet architecture?

multicast group members locations from lookin at IGMP traffic from "below" 
is one exxaple (think dslams too) but another would be 
P2P aware Traffic Engineering, for example

"layer violations" as taught in protocls #101 has traditionally
been restricted to upper layer tweaking layer-2 operating parameters
(think Application/TCP causing Dial up), rather than
vice versa - but the other way round stretches
programming API paradigms more athletically
so may be condusive to progress...

In missive <1210445625.6167.138.camel at jg-laptop>, Jim Gettys typed:

 >>On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 12:18 -0400, David P. Reed wrote:
 >>> There are huge aspects of that future that depend on getting the 
 >>> low-level abstractions right (in the sense that they match real physical 
 >>> reality).  And at the same time, constructing a stack of abstractions 
 >>> that work to maximize the utility of radio.
 >>First hand reality in the OLPC project: use of multicast/broadcast based
 >>protocols when crossed with nascent wireless protocols (802.11s), can
 >>cause spectacularly "interesting" (as in Chinese curse) interactions.
 >>First hand experience is showing that one had better understand what
 >>happens at the lowest wireless layers while building application
 >>middleware protocols and applications....  Some existing protocols that
 >>have worked well on wired networks, and sort of worked OK on 802.11abc
 >>networks, just doesn't work well (or scale well) on a mesh designed to
 >>try to hide what's going on under the covers.
 >>While overlays are going to play an important role in getting us out of
 >>the current morass (without transition strategies, we're toast; that was
 >>what got the Internet out of telecom circuit switching as the only
 >>mechanism), I have to emphatically agree with Dave that we'd better get
 >>moving on more fundamental redesign and rethinking of networking....
 >>                           - Jim
 >>Jim Gettys <jg at laptop.org>
 >>One Laptop Per Child



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