[e2e] Discrete IP - retake
Jon Crowcroft
Jon.Crowcroft at cl.cam.ac.uk
Tue Sep 18 05:25:15 PDT 2012
I'm not saying you need to go to a conference or journal, except from the
point of view of finding out what else is going on (which is a lot)
note a lot of the papers these people write are not just "academic" - the
pointers I have are to groups who work with industry - for example, with
ISPs, router vendors, cloud service providers, and the papers I prefer to
mention are not just "paper" studies or simulations, but involve real code
(just like the IETF, and just like vendors)
the trilogy project is probabl a good example of how to work with a bunch
of different types of groups, and has delivered work into the IETF which
could see real deployment (first off in mobile devices and data centers,
then more widely spread) - its also a great example of how much "heavy
lifting" you have to do to get from a Great Idea, to getting a lot of
people on your side and trying things out, and doing all the
implementation, testing, deployment, debugging, re-deployment etc etc
IPv6 is/was, in my view, another example of such a massive effort and
although it is flawed (it was the result of a compromise between two better
proposals which were each potentially much easier to deploy, but polarised
people, and the solution was one of (in my opinion) the great failings of
the IETF when it agreed to combine them (a committee type decision) rather
than just do both and see which got out most. (the two, if you want ancient
history, were Steve's IP and Paul's IP (actually, those aren't their real
names, but that's who they came from) - the simple internet protocol had 64
bit addresses and everything else prety miuch the same - PIP had FTIFs
which afforded ultrafast switching and really scalable source routing...
oh well....luckly we didn't pick CLNP+NSAP (which nearly happened)
In missive <CACQuieayXDJ2A+BPS009ZN04nz6iy7pYzPBmv+_wtjCqYzFnVA at mail.gmail.com>, Par
s Mutaf typed:
>>Hi Jon,
>>
>>I at last solved the puzzle and understood the real meaning of your
>>message:
>>
>>You are basically telling to me to go to a conference or journal. :-)
>>
>>No problem but we cannot discuss it here publicly? I am not interested in
>>author-based research. All these people do research but they never discuss
>>publicly.
>>http://www.content-based-science.org/
>>
>>The first question that we need to answer is what we want, before proposing
>>solutions.
>>I argue that we need a dirty and happy Internet where everybody do what
>>they wish.
>>All these folks should be able to implement what they wish and be reachable
>>to others.
>>
>>All of them are correct.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Jon Crowcroft
>><Jon.Crowcroft at cl.cam.ac.uk>wrote:
>>
>>> as i said, read the paper we published in sigcomm future network
>>> architectures nearly 10 years ago
>>> http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~andy/papers/plutarch-fdna.pdf
>>>
>>> no one in the IETF says you can't run multiple versions of IP
>>> and build interworking points that copy payloads , if you so wish -
>>> actually, there's a lot of this going on in middleboxes one way and another
>>> already
>>>
>>> you need to propose how you find the right place to do the translation of
>>> headers - this requires some sort of overlay control plane and might ential
>>> the use of a new overlay meta-addressing system or make use of name
>>> spaces as in IPNL or related work on I^3
>>> http://128.232.0.20/teaching/0910/R02/papers/ipnl.pdf
>>> http://www.cs.rice.edu/Conferences/IPTPS02/166.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> many of the ways IPv4/IPv6 interworking have also tackled this, not just
>>> using tunnels or tunnel brokers, but lots of other techniques
>>>
>>> there are LOTS and LOTS of papers in the future internet research
>>> programmes around the world on how to do this ad solve other practical
>>> problems - see work in the IETF on ILNP for example
>>> http://ilnp.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk/
>>>
>>> e2e is just one discussion place - the future internet research programmes
>>> have moved a long way beyond the necessary and insufficienct business of
>>> deploying IPv6 as fast and as widely as possible, and on to tackling a
>>> bunch of new problems (Information centric networking, for example, or
>>> massive scale internet of things and sensors etc etc)
>>>
>>> communities of interest for that include conferences such as ACM Sigcomm
>>> and Usenix NSDI and IEEE Infocom and many others...
>>>
>>> ideas like XIA (see recent FIA report
>>>
>>> http://www.nets-fia.net/Meetings/May11/May%202011%20meeting%20report%203-1.pdf
>>> amongst oterhs) go way beyond identifiers for end points and have entire
>>> DAGs coded in packets (efficiently)
>>>
>>> there's so much exciting new stuff out there....
>>>
>>>
>>> on the other hand, practical barriers to deploying lots of different stuff
>>> exist, not just in the slowness/ossified internet core IPv4 routers, but in
>>> the many weird boxes nearer the edges - see the Trilogy project
>>> folks' paper on
>>> How Hard Can It Be? Designing and Implementing a Deployable Multipath TCP
>>> at
>>> https://www.usenix.org/conference/nsdi12/tech-schedule/technical-sessions
>>>
>>> and also in same conference session, the cunning tricks the Yale folks had
>>> to empoy to get small changes into TCP:
>>> Fitting Square Pegs Through Round Pipes: Unordered Delivery Wire-Compatible
>>> with TCP and TLS
>>>
>>> In missive <CACQuieYAU+O1bXYdM+ZJsknXE=
>>> 8wPgzftOxKJ73Mshxu2Dtc6A at mail.gmail.com>, Par
>>> s Mutaf typed:
>>>
>>> >>--047d7b4140c626654d04c9f67a1c
>>> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>> >>
>>> >>Off-list messages that I received indicate to me that I was not taken
>>> >>seriously
>>> >>because I am too modest. I was called a troll and hobbyist. I have in
>>> fact
>>> >>a PhD in
>>> >>computer science from INRIA, France. I am now an asst prof. in Turkey.
>>> >>But I let go my PhD title because my thinking evolved beyond your
>>> >>imagination ;-).
>>> >>Check and support my project (off-list please this is off-topic):
>>> >>
>>> >>http://www.content-based-science.org/
>>> >>
>>> >>What is important is the content. Not the name.
>>> >>
>>> >>Now back to our topic. IPng was clearly designed the wrong way. Now read
>>> >>the
>>> >>message again, this is the result of 15 years thinking:
>>> >>-----
>>> >>
>>> >>Dear colleagues,
>>> >>
>>> >>I believe that the next step in IP's evolution would not be IPv6. It
>>> would
>>> >>be "Discrete IP" allowing any IP version.
>>> >>I concluded that Discrete IP better respects the end-to-end principles
>>> >>therefore it is economically more viable.
>>> >>
>>> >>***Do not touch the existing Internet, do not assume that IPv6 is the
>>> end of
>>> >>centuries of research.***
>>> >>
>>> >>-I propose that we do not touch the core Internet, i.e. enforce the
>>> >>modification of all Internet routers, this is what IPv6 does.
>>> >>-People should be free to choose the IP version that they wish because
>>> >>deciding for others is a technology blocker. IETF designs IPv6, IETF
>>> blocks
>>> >>its development. Because IETF does not give freedom of choice. This is
>>> not
>>> >>normal. Some entities may use IPv6 others IPv4 yet others IPv7 for
>>> unknown
>>> >>reasons. Everybody may agree on IPv6, or not. We do not know. We do not
>>> >>have to.
>>> >>-To give such freedom of choice, we need to change the end-nodes, for
>>> >>example TCP.
>>> >>-This is the end-to-end principle.
>>> >>
>>> >>Here is a picture (in this picture we have a network of Internets
>>> running
>>> >>random IP versions):
>>> >>
>>> http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/images/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg
>>> >>The question is:
>>> >>***Would this be the ideal for the Internet? Please discuss this
>>> question
>>> >>without entering in design challenges.***
>>> >>
>>> >>For more information, see my unpublished paper:
>>> >>
>>> >>http://www.scribd.com/doc/105448105/Discrete-IP
>>> >>
>>> >>Cheers,
>>> >>Pars
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>http://www.content-based-science.org
>>> >>
>>> >>--047d7b4140c626654d04c9f67a1c
>>> >>Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>> >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> >>
>>> >>Off-list messages that I received indicate to me that I was not taken
>>> serio=
>>> >>usly<br>because I am too modest. I was called a troll and hobbyist. I
>>> have =
>>> >>in fact a PhD in <br>computer science from INRIA, France. I am now an
>>> asst =
>>> >>prof. in Turkey. <br>
>>> >>But I let go my PhD title because my thinking evolved beyond your
>>> imaginati=
>>> >>on ;-). <br>Check and support my project (off-list please this is
>>> off-topic=
>>> >>):<br><br><a href=3D"http://www.content-based-science.org/">
>>> http://www.cont=
>>> >>ent-based-science.org/</a><br>
>>> >><br>What is important is the content. Not the name.<br><br>Now back to
>>> our =
>>> >>topic. IPng was clearly designed the wrong way. Now read the
>>> <br>message ag=
>>> >>ain, this is the result of 15 years thinking:<br>-----<br><br>Dear
>>> colleagu=
>>> >>es,<br>
>>> >><br>I believe that the next step in IP's evolution would not be
>>> IPv6. I=
>>> >>t would<br>be "Discrete IP" allowing any IP version.<br>I
>>> conclud=
>>> >>ed that Discrete IP better respects the end-to-end
>>> principles<br>therefore =
>>> >>it is economically more viable.<br>
>>> >><br>***Do not touch the existing Internet, do not assume that IPv6 is
>>> the e=
>>> >>nd of<br>centuries of research.***<br><br>-I propose that we do not
>>> touch t=
>>> >>he core Internet, i.e. enforce the<br>modification of all Internet
>>> routers,=
>>> >> this is what IPv6 does.<br>
>>> >>-People should be free to choose the IP version that they wish
>>> because<br>d=
>>> >>eciding for others is a technology blocker. IETF designs IPv6, IETF
>>> blocks<=
>>> >>br>its development. Because IETF does not give freedom of choice. This
>>> is n=
>>> >>ot<br>
>>> >>normal. Some entities may use IPv6 others IPv4 yet others IPv7 for
>>> unknown<=
>>> >>br>reasons. Everybody may agree on IPv6, or not. We do not know. We do
>>> not<=
>>> >>br>have to.<br>-To give such freedom of choice, we need to change the
>>> end-n=
>>> >>odes, for<br>
>>> >>example TCP.<br>-This is the end-to-end principle.<br><br>Here is a
>>> picture=
>>> >> (in this picture we have a network of Internets running<br>random IP
>>> versi=
>>> >>ons):<br><a href=3D"
>>> http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/image=
>>> >>s/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg">
>>> http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/image=
>>> >>s/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg</a><br>
>>> >>The question is:<br>***Would this be the ideal for the Internet? Please
>>> dis=
>>> >>cuss this question<br>without entering in design
>>> challenges.***<br><br>For =
>>> >>more information, see my unpublished paper:<br><br><a href=3D"
>>> http://www.sc=
>>> >>ribd.com/doc/105448105/Discrete-IP">
>>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/105448105/Dis=
>>> >>crete-IP</a><br>
>>> >><br>Cheers,<br>Pars<br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=3D"
>>> http://www.conte=
>>> >>nt-based-science.org" target=3D"_blank">
>>> http://www.content-based-science.or=
>>> >>g</a><br><br>
>>> >>
>>> >>--047d7b4140c626654d04c9f67a1c--
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> jon
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>http://www.content-based-science.org
>>
>>--047d7bae44c8472c4304c9f8c72f
>>Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>Hi Jon, <br><br>I at last solved the puzzle and understood the real meaning=
>> of your message: <br><br>You are basically telling to me to go to a confer=
>>ence or journal. :-)<br><br>No problem but we cannot discuss it here public=
>>ly? I am not interested in <br>
>>author-based research. All these people do research but they never discuss =
>>publicly. <br><a href=3D"http://www.content-based-science.org/">http://www.=
>>content-based-science.org/</a><br><br>The first question that we need to an=
>>swer is what we want, before proposing solutions.<br>
>>I argue that we need a dirty and happy Internet where everybody do what the=
>>y wish. <br>All these folks should be able to implement what they wish and =
>>be reachable to others. <br><br>All of them are correct. <br><br>Thanks<br>
>><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Jon Crowcro=
>>ft <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:Jon.Crowcroft at cl.cam.ac.uk" targ=
>>et=3D"_blank">Jon.Crowcroft at cl.cam.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
>>te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
>>lid;padding-left:1ex">
>>as i said, read the paper we published in sigcomm future network<br>
>>architectures nearly 10 years ago<br>
>><a href=3D"http://www.cs.ubc.ca/%7Eandy/papers/plutarch-fdna.pdf" target=3D=
>>"_blank">http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~andy/papers/plutarch-fdna.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>>no one in the IETF says you can't run multiple versions of IP<br>
>>and build interworking points that copy payloads , if you so wish -<br>
>>actually, there's a lot of this going on in middleboxes one way and ano=
>>ther<br>
>>already<br>
>><br>
>>you need to propose how you find the right place to do the translation of<b=
>>r>
>>headers - this requires some sort of overlay control plane and might ential=
>><br>
>>the use of a new overlay meta-addressing system or make =A0use of name<br>
>>spaces as in IPNL or related work on I^3<br>
>><a href=3D"http://128.232.0.20/teaching/0910/R02/papers/ipnl.pdf" target=3D=
>>"_blank">http://128.232.0.20/teaching/0910/R02/papers/ipnl.pdf</a><br>
>><a href=3D"http://www.cs.rice.edu/Conferences/IPTPS02/166.pdf" target=3D"_b=
>>lank">http://www.cs.rice.edu/Conferences/IPTPS02/166.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>many of the ways IPv4/IPv6 interworking have also tackled this, not just<br=
>>>
>>using tunnels or tunnel brokers, but lots of other techniques<br>
>><br>
>>there are LOTS and LOTS of papers in the future internet research<br>
>>programmes around the world on how to do this ad solve other practical<br>
>>problems - see work in the IETF on ILNP for example<br>
>><a href=3D"http://ilnp.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk/" target=3D"_blank">http://ilnp.=
>>cs.st-andrews.ac.uk/</a><br>
>><br>
>>e2e is just one discussion place - the future internet research programmes<=
>>br>
>>have moved a long way beyond the necessary and insufficienct business of<br=
>>>
>>deploying IPv6 as fast and as widely as possible, and on to tackling a<br>
>>bunch of new problems (Information centric networking, for example, or<br>
>>massive scale internet of things and sensors etc etc)<br>
>><br>
>>communities of interest for that include conferences such as ACM Sigcomm<br=
>>>
>>and Usenix NSDI and IEEE Infocom and many others...<br>
>><br>
>>ideas like XIA (see recent FIA report<br>
>><a href=3D"http://www.nets-fia.net/Meetings/May11/May%202011%20meeting%20re=
>>port%203-1.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://www.nets-fia.net/Meetings/May11/Ma=
>>y%202011%20meeting%20report%203-1.pdf</a><br>
>>amongst oterhs) go way beyond identifiers for end points and have entire<br=
>>>
>>DAGs coded in packets (efficiently)<br>
>><br>
>>there's so much exciting new stuff out there....<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>on the other hand, practical barriers to deploying lots of different stuff<=
>>br>
>>exist, not just in the slowness/ossified internet core IPv4 routers, but in=
>><br>
>>the many weird boxes nearer the edges - see the Trilogy project<br>
>>folks' paper on<br>
>>How Hard Can It Be? Designing and Implementing a Deployable Multipath TCP<b=
>>r>
>>at<br>
>><a href=3D"https://www.usenix.org/conference/nsdi12/tech-schedule/technical=
>>-sessions" target=3D"_blank">https://www.usenix.org/conference/nsdi12/tech-=
>>schedule/technical-sessions</a><br>
>><br>
>>and also in same conference session, the cunning tricks the Yale folks had<=
>>br>
>>to empoy to get small changes into TCP:<br>
>>Fitting Square Pegs Through Round Pipes: Unordered Delivery Wire-Compatible=
>><br>
>>with TCP and TLS<br>
>><br>
>>In missive <CACQuieYAU+O1bXYdM+ZJsknXE=3D<a href=3D"mailto:8wPgzftOxKJ73=
>>Mshxu2Dtc6A at mail.gmail.com">8wPgzftOxKJ73Mshxu2Dtc6A at mail.gmail.com</a>>=
>>, Par<br>
>>s Mutaf typed:<br>
>><br>
>>=A0>>--047d7b4140c626654d04c9f67a1c<br>
>>=A0>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1<br>
>><div><div class=3D"h5">=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>Off-list messages that I received indicate to me that I was not =
>>taken<br>
>>=A0>>seriously<br>
>>=A0>>because I am too modest. I was called a troll and hobbyist. I ha=
>>ve in fact<br>
>>=A0>>a PhD in<br>
>>=A0>>computer science from INRIA, France. I am now an asst prof. in T=
>>urkey.<br>
>>=A0>>But I let go my PhD title because my thinking evolved beyond you=
>>r<br>
>>=A0>>imagination ;-).<br>
>>=A0>>Check and support my project (off-list please this is off-topic)=
>>:<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>><a href=3D"http://www.content-based-science.org/" target=3D"_bla=
>>nk">http://www.content-based-science.org/</a><br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>What is important is the content. Not the name.<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>Now back to our topic. IPng was clearly designed the wrong way. =
>>Now read<br>
>>=A0>>the<br>
>>=A0>>message again, this is the result of 15 years thinking:<br>
>>=A0>>-----<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>Dear colleagues,<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>I believe that the next step in IP's evolution would not be =
>>IPv6. It would<br>
>>=A0>>be "Discrete IP" allowing any IP version.<br>
>>=A0>>I concluded that Discrete IP better respects the end-to-end prin=
>>ciples<br>
>>=A0>>therefore it is economically more viable.<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>***Do not touch the existing Internet, do not assume that IPv6 i=
>>s the end of<br>
>>=A0>>centuries of research.***<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>-I propose that we do not touch the core Internet, i.e. enforce =
>>the<br>
>>=A0>>modification of all Internet routers, this is what IPv6 does.<br=
>>>
>>=A0>>-People should be free to choose the IP version that they wish b=
>>ecause<br>
>>=A0>>deciding for others is a technology blocker. IETF designs IPv6, =
>>IETF blocks<br>
>>=A0>>its development. Because IETF does not give freedom of choice. T=
>>his is not<br>
>>=A0>>normal. Some entities may use IPv6 others IPv4 yet others IPv7 f=
>>or unknown<br>
>>=A0>>reasons. Everybody may agree on IPv6, or not. We do not know. We=
>> do not<br>
>>=A0>>have to.<br>
>>=A0>>-To give such freedom of choice, we need to change the end-nodes=
>>, for<br>
>>=A0>>example TCP.<br>
>>=A0>>-This is the end-to-end principle.<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>Here is a picture (in this picture we have a network of Internet=
>>s running<br>
>>=A0>>random IP versions):<br>
>>=A0>><a href=3D"http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/ima=
>>ges/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg" target=3D"_blank">http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/37=
>>98kx3chs1szfhj/images/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg</a><br>
>>=A0>>The question is:<br>
>>=A0>>***Would this be the ideal for the Internet? Please discuss this=
>> question<br>
>>=A0>>without entering in design challenges.***<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>For more information, see my unpublished paper:<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>><a href=3D"http://www.scribd.com/doc/105448105/Discrete-IP" targ=
>>et=3D"_blank">http://www.scribd.com/doc/105448105/Discrete-IP</a><br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>Cheers,<br>
>>=A0>>Pars<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>--<br>
>>=A0>><a href=3D"http://www.content-based-science.org" target=3D"_blan=
>>k">http://www.content-based-science.org</a><br>
>>=A0>><br>
>></div></div>=A0>>--047d7b4140c626654d04c9f67a1c<br>
>>=A0>>Content-Type: text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1<br>
>>=A0>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>Off-list messages that I received indicate to me that I was not =
>>taken serio=3D<br>
>>=A0>>usly<br>because I am too modest. I was called a troll and =
>>hobbyist. I have =3D<br>
>>=A0>>in fact a PhD in <br>computer science from INRIA, France. =
>>I am now an asst =3D<br>
>>=A0>>prof. in Turkey. <br><br>
>>=A0>>But I let go my PhD title because my thinking evolved beyond you=
>>r imaginati=3D<br>
>>=A0>>on ;-). <br>Check and support my project (off-list please =
>>this is off-topic=3D<br>
>>=A0>>):<br><br><a href=3D3D"<a href=3D"http://www=
>>.content-based-science.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.content-based-sci=
>>ence.org/</a>"><a href=3D"http://www.cont" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
>>/www.cont</a>=3D<br>
>>
>>=A0>><a href=3D"http://ent-based-science.org/" target=3D"_blank">ent-=
>>based-science.org/</a></a><br><br>
>>=A0>><br>What is important is the content. Not the name.<br&=
>>gt;<br>Now back to our =3D<br>
>>=A0>>topic. IPng was clearly designed the wrong way. Now read the <=
>>;br>message ag=3D<br>
>>=A0>>ain, this is the result of 15 years thinking:<br>-----<=
>>br><br>Dear colleagu=3D<br>
>>=A0>>es,<br><br>
>>=A0>><br>I believe that the next step in IP&#39;s evolution=
>> would not be IPv6. I=3D<br>
>>=A0>>t would<br>be &quot;Discrete IP&quot; allowing any=
>> IP version.<br>I conclud=3D<br>
>>=A0>>ed that Discrete IP better respects the end-to-end principles<=
>>;br>therefore =3D<br>
>>=A0>>it is economically more viable.<br><br>
>>=A0>><br>***Do not touch the existing Internet, do not assume t=
>>hat IPv6 is the e=3D<br>
>>=A0>>nd of<br>centuries of research.***<br><br>-I p=
>>ropose that we do not touch t=3D<br>
>>=A0>>he core Internet, i.e. enforce the<br>modification of all =
>>Internet routers,=3D<br>
>>=A0>> this is what IPv6 does.<br><br>
>>=A0>>-People should be free to choose the IP version that they wish b=
>>ecause<br>d=3D<br>
>>=A0>>eciding for others is a technology blocker. IETF designs IPv6, I=
>>ETF blocks<=3D<br>
>>=A0>>br>its development. Because IETF does not give freedom of cho=
>>ice. This is n=3D<br>
>>=A0>>ot<br><br>
>>=A0>>normal. Some entities may use IPv6 others IPv4 yet others IPv7 f=
>>or unknown<=3D<br>
>>=A0>>br>reasons. Everybody may agree on IPv6, or not. We do not kn=
>>ow. We do not<=3D<br>
>>=A0>>br>have to.<br>-To give such freedom of choice, we need=
>> to change the end-n=3D<br>
>>=A0>>odes, for<br><br>
>>=A0>>example TCP.<br>-This is the end-to-end principle.<br&g=
>>t;<br>Here is a picture=3D<br>
>>=A0>> (in this picture we have a network of Internets running<br&g=
>>t;random IP versi=3D<br>
>>=A0>>ons):<br><a href=3D3D"<a href=3D"http://htmlimg4.s=
>>cribdassets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/image=3D" target=3D"_blank">http://htmlimg=
>>4.scribdassets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/image=3D</a><br>
>>=A0>>s/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg"><a href=3D"http://htmlimg4.scribdass=
>>ets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/image=3D" target=3D"_blank">http://htmlimg4.scribd=
>>assets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/image=3D</a><br>
>>=A0>>s/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg</a><br><br>
>>=A0>>The question is:<br>***Would this be the ideal for the Int=
>>ernet? Please dis=3D<br>
>>=A0>>cuss this question<br>without entering in design challenge=
>>s.***<br><br>For =3D<br>
>>=A0>>more information, see my unpublished paper:<br><br>&=
>>lt;a href=3D3D"<a href=3D"http://www.sc" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
>>sc</a>=3D<br>
>>=A0>><a href=3D"http://ribd.com/doc/105448105/Discrete-IP" target=3D"=
>>_blank">ribd.com/doc/105448105/Discrete-IP</a>"><a href=3D"http://w=
>>ww.scribd.com/doc/105448105/Dis=3D" target=3D"_blank">http://www.scribd.com=
>>/doc/105448105/Dis=3D</a><br>
>>
>>=A0>>crete-IP</a><br><br>
>>=A0>><br>Cheers,<br>Pars<br clear=3D3D"all"&=
>>gt;<br>-- <br><a href=3D3D"<a href=3D"http://www.conte"=
>> target=3D"_blank">http://www.conte</a>=3D<br>
>>=A0>><a href=3D"http://nt-based-science.org" target=3D"_blank">nt-bas=
>>ed-science.org</a>" target=3D3D"_blank"><a href=3D"http:/=
>>/www.content-based-science.or" target=3D"_blank">http://www.content-based-s=
>>cience.or</a>=3D<br>
>>
>>=A0>>g</a><br><br><br>
>>=A0>><br>
>>=A0>>--047d7b4140c626654d04c9f67a1c--<br>
>><br>
>>=A0cheers<br>
>><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
>>=A0 =A0jon<br>
>><br>
>></font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=
>>=3D"http://www.content-based-science.org" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cont=
>>ent-based-science.org</a><br><br>
>>
>>--047d7bae44c8472c4304c9f8c72f--
cheers
jon
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