Rolling this thread through my head a little. A few thoughts ... they are likely worth exactly what you paid for them ... First, I wonder if rather than focusing on who cannot attend *a particular* HotNets (or SIG sponsored closed workshops in general) we should take the long view. Something like: * Many people beyond those in the room derive much benefit from the HotNets papers. I doubt that is a big stretch. * While a particular individual may not be able to derive the full benefit of HotNets by attending this year, the attendance rolls enough year-to-year that a large number of people get the full benefit of HotNets over the course of 5 years (say) -- especially those people working in new areas of communications. I was actually quite surprised by Larry's numbers that said of 181 attendance slots in three of the four HotNets 145 unique people filled them. That seems pretty good to me. We can argue about the exact metrics, but I think the indication there is that HotNets is not getting cliquish. You maybe you buy this "long view" and maybe not. But, if you do then maybe I would suggest that the SIG could sponsor long-running closed workshops, but that they should be subject to a little more review by the SIGCOMM executive committee as the price of sponsorship of such events. So: * We could require a fairly stable SC that could be held accountable and could hold onto the history of the workshop. (I am not sure I understand the general rules on SIGCOMM sponsored venues and their SCs.) E.g., there would not be complete turnover of the SC in one year and so the choosing of the PC chairs could be seen as a crapshoot. E.g., so that we have some notion that the invitations won't be biased because someone with a reasonable track record is watching. * We ask the steering committee to keep some attendance statistics and run a new set every year just so that we know if things are becoming cliquish. * We ask for a report of the workshop goings on for CCR. * Then we take the long-view that in any given year there are going to be good people who would make excellent participants who are shut out. But, in the long run the people who attend this year will also be shut out down the road. Maybe? allman