[e2e] Re: NATting SCTP

[Randall Stewart]

Dan Wing wrote:
> (CC'ing ietf-behave, and setting reply-to to ietf-behave)
> 
> On Jan 26, 2005, at 12:20 PM, Randall Stewart wrote:
> 
>>>>
>>> I admit to only reading that I-D once, but NATting SCTP is certainly 
>>> more complex than NATting TCP or UDP, especially with multihoming.
>>> I'm unclear how two SCTP devices, behind their own NATs, can 
>>> communicate with each other.  The communication problem seems akin to 
>>> two UDP or TCP devices, behind their own NATs, communicating with 
>>> each other ---- the NAT will have to preserve the port numbers which 
>>> means only one SCTP device is permitted behind a NAT, or else the NAT 
>>> will have to multiplex using something other than the SCTP port 
>>> number, or else you need an SCTP port discovery protocol (akin to 
>>> STUN for UDP).
>>
>> No why do you say that? If you follow the recomendation of the
>> drafts you get
>>
>> --From IP-A'(port:2222)-INIT(**)-To:IP-Z:port-80---->
>>
>> ** No addresses listed aka we are singly homed.
>>
>> Nat gets it and makes it
>>
>> ----->From IP-A(port:9999)-INIT(**)---To:IPZ:port-80-------->
>>
>> Nat at IPZ gets it and does whatever static mapping.. i.e. you
>> have the same problem you have with a apache server behind a NAT .. you
>> must have the NAT direct the port 80 connection somewhere.. this is
>> the same for TCP..
>>
>> ----From IP-A(port:9999)---INIT(**)----To:IPZ':port-8080---->
>>
>>
>> And the reverse mappings take place the opposite ways...
>>
>> I don't see how this does not work..
> 
> 
> I agree it works, but only if:
> 
>   1.  you know the SCTP servers behind the NAT, and

And does this differ with the way we do TCP servers behind a NAT?

>   2.  reconfigure your NAT to do port forwarding, and

And again, does this differ with the way we do TCP servers behind a NAT?
>   3.  inform the remote SCTP client of your public SCTP port (which,
>       if there is only one SCTP device behind the NAT, might well be
>       the same as your application's default SCTP port).

Again.. All of these cavets you list are the SAME exact ones that
you do when you put a TCP server behind a NAT.. you:

1) Place the TCP server behind the NAT
and
2) configure your nat to port forward <80> (for example) to 8080 at
    10.1.1.1
and
3) Tell the client about the public port.

Nothing here is any differnet then the way current nats work with
TCP...

> 
> However, the barista at the local coffeeshop won't reconfigure their NAT 
> to support your SCTP server while you're using wireless at the 
> coffeeshop.  And my proverbial father wouldn't know how to reconfigure 
> his NAT, either, and my SCTP application won't know the public SCTP port 
> he chose to use when I visit his house with my wireless device.

And let me guess you think someone at these same places is going
to know how to configure a TCP server behind a NAT too? I think
not..

> 
> As to your statement that this is how TCP works, there are active 
> efforts to make TCP servers behind NATs 'just work', without requiring 
> the NAT to be configured for port forwarding.  See for example
> http://nutss.gforge.cis.cornell.edu/stunt.php, which would require only 
> (3) from my list above -- which is necessary anyway if the same 
> application exists on multiple hosts behind a common NAT.


Ok.. there are efforts underway ..I will look at your link.. but
whatever you come up with for TCP you can do the same exact thing
for SCTP..

Its the same work.. and note that it is "an effort under way" which
means the folks at the coffee shop are still doing 1 and 2 to
get their TCP server to work behind their NAT :-0


R
> 
> -d
> 
> 
>> R
>>
>>>> and yes Cisco has had at least one
>>>> customer ask for it... Have they had lots .. no. The
>>>> reason being where Cisco currently makes money from
>>>> SCTP is inside the network. Most folks don't run their
>>>> SS7 over IP network where they want to have a NAT
>>>> to Global address cross over.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> I expect SCTP will find more applications than just SS7-over-SCTP, 
>>> and that will help drive the need for NATs that understand SCTP.
>>> -d
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Randall Stewart
>> 803-345-0369 <or> 815-342-5222(cell)
>>
> 
> 


-- 
Randall Stewart
803-345-0369 <or> 815-342-5222(cell)