[e2e] Discrete IP - retake

Pars Mutaf pars.mutaf at gmail.com
Thu Sep 20 01:02:24 PDT 2012

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Jon Crowcroft
<Jon.Crowcroft at cl.cam.ac.uk>wrote:

> Ah - I see the source of confusion.
> You want to build a standby infrastructure
> There are lots of ways to do that -
> One is to build standby cell power
> (solar, diesel - so long as you have sunlight
> or your dieel isnt flooded or disconnected
> the way the generators at fukushima were)
> or have huge racks of batteries the way old
> phone exchanges did, which were engineered for a 100years MTBF (fail
> defined as >50% of lines down) -
> Indeed, the ITU charity organisation has solar
> powered base stations with satellite uplinks already in fact...


> Or you can build an +alternative+ infrastructure - one which is parallel in
> technology - as you've proposed....and go figure out how to get either of
> those paid for ....you need a lot of stuff and some business model
> However, its beside the point:
> The mistake you make is that you think people in a disaster zone want to
> make long haul phone calls (like Keanu Reeves in Johnny Mnemonic)...
> they don't. what they want is to find other people _nearby_
> who have safe water, dry
> clothes, medicine and expterise, shelter etc -

No I don't do this mistake.

***The base station can serve for the calling the neighborhood too***.

MANET looks like nothing but a research exercise to me.

It is not needed as you admitted above.

> What people building DTNs
> (not just MANETs as you keep insisting incorrectly)
> want to do is to provide _something_ for a
> self organising set of people to
> self organise opportunistic communication,
> UNTIL someone (else) comes along
> and fixes the infrastructure some while later usually
> (because coming along right away requires you to have
> massive rescue teams on standby 24*7 -
> go figure out how get that paid for).
> Anyhow I'd forgotten about the dual pathologies present on mail lists -
> One has already been alluded to - the other is my own error
> in assuming that it was still my duty in public online fora to
> discuss, explain, reach understanding about stuff - that's obviously
> not the point any more. (lord knows what's left then, though).
> of course, the pathological behaviours depend on each other,
> so I will now go away and meditate on my bad ways for a bit
> while listening to 'Blood' playing
> Jazz is the teacher, funk is the preacher
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9g6ZJjt9lg
> Its been, er, virtual...
> In missive <CACQuieaSzr6RMz9V57JdQwERYF=
> yf18msEv0dg-4rs6t8_OHCA at mail.gmail.com>, Par
> s Mutaf typed:
>  >>--bcaec51a8b864356cb04ca1cfac8
>  >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>  >>
>  >>In summary, why MANET is a bad idea:
>  >>
>  >>1. We need to reconstruct the infrastructure, otherwise MANET will only
> be
>  >>useful to talk to my neighborhood who have no idea what to do. I would
>  >>rather wait for real help instead of consuming my battery for trying to
> get
>  >>help from non-professional strangers.
>  >>
>  >>This means that users really have no incentive to consume energy for
> others
>  >>because they are waiting for real help. And this is what they should do.
>  >>
>  >>You can of course try to reach your neighbors for your broken leg,
> request
>  >>water from your non-professional neighbors or other things, but I am not
>  >>sure if this is a good idea. What real help they can provide?
>  >>
>  >>2. If I am too far from the network I cannot reach anyone. Some people
>  >>suggested using long range wifi, but I don't have this in my pocket.
>  >>
>  >>Therefore:
>  >>
>  >>The balloons should be installed as fast as possible. It will broadcast
> an
>  >>address which everyone can call for real help.
>  >>
>  >>This is really not a networking problem. It is about education.
>  >>
>  >>===
>  >>
>  >>I am also not sure if the cellular network is not robust enough, we may
> not
>  >>even need a balloon:
>  >>
>  >>
> http://www.trust.org/alertnet/blogs/alertnet-news-blog/cell-phones-and-radios-help-save-lives-after-haiti-earthquake/
>  >>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/end2end-interest/attachments/20120920/b6d80a03/attachment.html

More information about the end2end-interest mailing list