[e2e] Discrete IP - retake

[Jon Crowcroft]

Ah - I see the source of confusion.

You want to build a standby infrastructure 

There are lots of ways to do that - 

One is to build standby cell power
(solar, diesel - so long as you have sunlight 
or your dieel isnt flooded or disconnected 
the way the generators at fukushima were)
or have huge racks of batteries the way old
phone exchanges did, which were engineered for a 100years MTBF (fail
defined as >50% of lines down) - 
Indeed, the ITU charity organisation has solar
powered base stations with satellite uplinks already in fact...

Or you can build an +alternative+ infrastructure - one which is parallel in
technology - as you've proposed....and go figure out how to get either of
those paid for ....you need a lot of stuff and some business model

However, its beside the point:
The mistake you make is that you think people in a disaster zone want to
make long haul phone calls (like Keanu Reeves in Johnny Mnemonic)...
they don't. what they want is to find other people _nearby_ 
who have safe water, dry
clothes, medicine and expterise, shelter etc - 

What people building DTNs 
(not just MANETs as you keep insisting incorrectly) 
want to do is to provide _something_ for a 
self organising set of people to
self organise opportunistic communication, 
UNTIL someone (else) comes along
and fixes the infrastructure some while later usually 
(because coming along right away requires you to have 
massive rescue teams on standby 24*7 - 
go figure out how get that paid for).

Anyhow I'd forgotten about the dual pathologies present on mail lists - 

One has already been alluded to - the other is my own error 
in assuming that it was still my duty in public online fora to 
discuss, explain, reach understanding about stuff - that's obviously
not the point any more. (lord knows what's left then, though).

of course, the pathological behaviours depend on each other, 
so I will now go away and meditate on my bad ways for a bit
while listening to 'Blood' playing
Jazz is the teacher, funk is the preacher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9g6ZJjt9lg

Its been, er, virtual...


In missive <CACQuieaSzr6RMz9V57JdQwERYF=yf18msEv0dg-4rs6t8_OHCA at mail.gmail.com>, Par
s Mutaf typed:

 >>--bcaec51a8b864356cb04ca1cfac8
 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 >>
 >>In summary, why MANET is a bad idea:
 >>
 >>1. We need to reconstruct the infrastructure, otherwise MANET will only be
 >>useful to talk to my neighborhood who have no idea what to do. I would
 >>rather wait for real help instead of consuming my battery for trying to get
 >>help from non-professional strangers.
 >>
 >>This means that users really have no incentive to consume energy for others
 >>because they are waiting for real help. And this is what they should do.
 >>
 >>You can of course try to reach your neighbors for your broken leg, request
 >>water from your non-professional neighbors or other things, but I am not
 >>sure if this is a good idea. What real help they can provide?
 >>
 >>2. If I am too far from the network I cannot reach anyone. Some people
 >>suggested using long range wifi, but I don't have this in my pocket.
 >>
 >>Therefore:
 >>
 >>The balloons should be installed as fast as possible. It will broadcast an
 >>address which everyone can call for real help.
 >>
 >>This is really not a networking problem. It is about education.
 >>
 >>===
 >>
 >>I am also not sure if the cellular network is not robust enough, we may not
 >>even need a balloon:
 >>
 >>http://www.trust.org/alertnet/blogs/alertnet-news-blog/cell-phones-and-radios-help-save-lives-after-haiti-earthquake/
 >>