[e2e] Discrete IP

Pars Mutaf pars.mutaf at gmail.com
Wed Sep 12 22:53:13 PDT 2012

Hi Zartash,

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Zartash Afzal Uzmi <zartash at lums.edu.pk>wrote:

> Dear Pars,
> If you are an end user, your "application" should be able to "talk" to
> anyone if your network uses IPv4 and their network uses IPv6. At the
> network layer, there must be "someone" in the middle who can understand
> both versions. This someone could be any router at a service provider and
> as an end user, all you would need to worry about is to be able to connect
> to your service provider.

So regarding your and Andrew's responses I got the answer to my question.
We should be able to use any IP version. But I don't understand how can we
do this in the current TCP/IP protocol suite.

Currently there are tunnel brokers, clearly not a real solution. Not easy
to use, not efficient and I have to install IPv6.


> So, for example, if your provider only has an IPv6 network, then yes your
> end host is restricted to use IPv6.
> There are situations (not rare, these days) when a service provider will
> allow end-user connectivity either through IPv4 or IPv6. So, it is up to
> the provider how they connect to the other service providers (IPv6 or IPv4
> or any other version).
> If you are a service provider, and do not support IPv6, then you can not
> "directly" connect with another provider who only supports IPv6. But then,
> you might be going through yet another larger service provider who would
> support both versions.
> Regards,
> Zartash
> ________________________________________
> From: end2end-interest-bounces at postel.org [
> end2end-interest-bounces at postel.org] On Behalf Of Pars Mutaf [
> pars.mutaf at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:38 AM
> To: Lachlan Andrew
> Cc: end2end-interest at postel.org
> Subject: Re: [e2e] Discrete IP
> Hi Andrew,
> China has IPv6 for example but I cannot talk to them.
> I don't have to install IPv6 to talk to them. If one day someone uses IPv7
> (it is their right), I don't have to install IPv7.
> The fact that there is a version field doesn't mean that all versions are
> supported.
> Cheers,
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Lachlan Andrew <lachlan.andrew at gmail.com
> <mailto:lachlan.andrew at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Greetings Pars,
> I think that what you are describing is actually the way the Internet
> works.  The "version" field in the IP header allows different users to
> run different versions over the same network.
> The IETF does not, and cannot, mandate that people use IPv6; that is
> why most people still do not use it.
> The reason that the routers need to be changed is that the process of
> routing requires them to know the address the packet is being sent to.
>  The way this address is represented depends on the version of IP, and
> so whatever version of IP is used must be supported by (some of) the
> routers.
> I hope this removes some confusion.
> Cheers,
> Lachlan
> On 12 September 2012 18:06, Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf at gmail.com<mailto:
> pars.mutaf at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > I believe that the next step in IP's evolution would not be IPv6. It
> would
> > be "Discrete IP" allowing any IP version.
> > I concluded that Discrete IP better respects the end-to-end principles
> > therefore it is economically more viable.
> >
> > -I propose that we do not touch the core Internet, i.e. enforce the
> > modification of all Internet routers.
> > -People should be free to choose the IP version that they wish because
> > deciding for others is a technology blocker. IETF designs IPv6, IETF
> blocks
> > its development. Because IETF does not give freedom of choice. This is
> not
> > normal. Some entities may use IPv6 others IPv4 yet others IPv7 for
> unknown
> > reasons. Everybody may agree on IPv6, or not. We do not know. We do not
> have
> > to.
> > -To give such freedom of choice, we need to change the end-nodes, for
> > example TCP.
> > -This is the end-to-end principle.
> >
> > Here is a picture (in this picture we have a network of Internets running
> > random IP versions):
> >
> http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/3798kx3chs1szfhj/images/4-ce35c39dd1.jpg
> >
> > The question is:
> > ***Would this be the ideal for the Internet? Please discuss this question
> > without entering in design challenges.***
> >
> > For more information, see my unpublished paper:
> >
> > http://www.scribd.com/doc/105448105/Discrete-IP
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Pars
> --
> Lachlan Andrew  Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures (CAIA)
> Swinburne University of Technology, Melbourne, Australia
> <http://caia.swin.edu.au/cv/landrew>
> Ph +61 3 9214 4837<tel:%2B61%203%209214%204837>
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